Light/Medium-Duty 4x4 - What Are The Options?

"crown victor victoria" (cvv) 12/16/2013 at 11:45 • Filed to: None

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2000 or newer
US market
No full size SUVs or Pickups

Suppose for a moment I have no interest in a Wrangler or a Tacoma. Ditto the Frontier or the Xterra. Also eliminate the FJ Cruiser, the Ranger and GM's small pickups under Chevrolet and GMC brands. And I guess whatever Hummer models might have been made, but I think they are too big anyway. Also toss out Cherokees and Liberties.

Basically I am wondering g if there are less common options I am not thinking of. I've seen jacked up Elements and stuff like that, which is cool, but I don't know how durable those would be or how practical they are once you modify them in ways mother nature did not intend. I guess I am trying to avoid gussied-up commuter cars and soft roaders.

Are there other rugged vehicles out there that can hit dirt and mud and tow without being o e of the obvious answers? I feel like I am going to see Subaru come up a lot, but I can't think of anything else.

CAPTAIN SLOW > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:47

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Suzuki Grand Vitara!

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:47

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What are you looking to tow with it?

HammerheadFistpunch > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:48

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more info needed here, are you in need of real capability (low range, solid axles, etc) or just all weather? Subaru's and elements are all weather, no matter the [street legal] lift and so im confused as to what you really need. There are lots of cool choices, but lets narrow it down some.

Nibbles > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:53

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Dakota

More specifically, a 2003-2006 (4-wheel disc) V6 or V8. V8 manual 4x4 FTW

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:54

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Isuzu Vehicross?

Aztec?

You've basically eliminated all vehicles in that category.

DailyTurismo > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:54

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Here is an odd one - 2007+ Toyota RAV4 - AWD V6. Not something to tackle the Rubicon, but 270ish hp V6 up front, a good 8 inches of ground clearance and cheap to run. Also, 0-60mph in under 6 seconds. Yeah - in 2008 it was the fastest car in the Toyota fleet to 60mph. ..might still be...

Your boy, BJR > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 11:59

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A dog with a saddle. Preferably a big one. Irish Wolf Hounds should do the trick.

MooseKnuckles > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:02

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early to mid 00's Zr2 optioned Blazer

Racescort666 > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:02

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Not sure if you'd even be interested in something like this but:

http://www.fluidmotorunion.com/archives/tag/x…

This thing is legit though. I've seen it driving around the Naperville, IL area and whoever owns it gets mud on it from time to time.

Edit: I think Bill Caswell wants to build one of these. I think he used to tow his racecars with his old X5 too.

Party-vi > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:07

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Firstly, any 200-up Subaru is NOT a 4x4 vehicle. They have AWD that kicks in power to non-driven wheels when traction loss is detected.

Second, why would you cross out a 2001 Cherokee? It's literally the best choice here and they can be head for very little money.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:08

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Yeah, you pretty much eliminated every single option there. You could get a Vehicross or something. Those are pretty rad and super Jalop.

But really, go for a Subaru Forester. I regularly drive both first- and second-gen examples, and they are a hoot in the snow (trust me, that's been happening a LOT recently), on the gravel (has happened a LOT in the past), in the wet (I am a WA native, after all), in middling off-road situations (don't ask, it was pretty illegal) and in the dry (just be ready for comical understeer if you push it too far). Additionally, they can lug disgusting amounts of stuff since you can fold the rear seats nearly flat (I've fit a double bass, an electric, two kickback amps, 3 cellos and multiple upper strings at once with room to spare [but no empty seats]. Funnily enough, I got pulled over and couldn't access the glovebox easily because of the amps. That was awkward). Also, if you take the roof rails off, they get reasonable mileage. Their only drawback in my eyes is pretty loud road noise. The turbo ones are unreasonably fast, too, but the NA ones are still a blast.

However, the third-gen examples are ugly-looking pigs. Should handle about the same or quite similar, though, it's still on the Impreza platform with the same powertrain. If you're willing to look past the ugliness, they should be fine, but really just go for a second-gen. They're pretty much identical to the first-gen with slightly updated bodywork but will have lower miles.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 12:10

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unless said Subaru is had with the manual. Those still have 50/50 static splits and use viscous couplers. granted, not true 4wd either, but its not an "active" system that waits to shunt power.

Party-vi > DailyTurismo 12/16/2013 at 12:11

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O_o

6.3 seconds . Not sure where you got the sub-5 second number.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 12/16/2013 at 12:18

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*grumble grumble 2-speed transfer case grumble grumble*

Wacko > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:25

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How about a lifted SX4

this one is lifted and has the bigger tires on it.

My SX4 only has the bigger tires, lifting next spring! and the AWD system does have a 50-50 lock, but only under 60 km/h.

I never got stuck yet

DailyTurismo > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 12:28

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Textured Soy Protein > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:46

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I went through a similar buying process recently to get a winter vehicle. I wanted something not too big, "real" 4WD, etc.

These are the choices I had narrowed it down to based on my not wanting to do stuff like adding locking diffs and whatnot. If you want something to modify, then recommendations would be slightly different.

1999-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee - but avoid 2004 Laredos with the NV147 "Quadra-Trac I" transfer case as it doesn't have low range. I6 models with Selec-Trac have the most modes: RWD, 4WD hi w/ locked center diff, full-time 4WD hi (unlocked center diff), and 4WD low (locked center diff). V8 models with Quadra-Trac II have full-time 4WD high and low (with locked center diff in low). Quadra-Drive takes Quadra-Trac II and adds front & rear LSDs.

2001-2006 Mitsubishi Montero - I'd say only go for the Limited as this has the much better full-time 4WD transfer case. '01-'02 have a 3.5L motor and rear Torsen LSD. '03-'06 have a 3.8L motor, open rear diff, and traction control.

2002-2004 Mitsubishi Montero Sport - the Montero Sport is actually based on the previous-gen '92-'00 Montero platform. When it first came out it was heavily decontented in both driveline and suspension, but as it went along they gradually brought it in line with the non-Sport Montero on which it was based. '02-'04 have the full-time 4WD transfer case, and the '02-'03 Limited has a rear Torsen LSD.

1998-2002 Isuzu Trooper - they got the Torque On Demand full-time 4WD starting in 1998. There was a relatively common rear LSD option that you can check for by looking for the option code G80 on a black plaque on the firewall to the left of the engine as you're looking at it from the front of the car. I think the LSD is standard on the Limited (leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc.) but the best way to be sure is to check the plaque for the option code.

1998-2002 Toyota 4Runner - the "best" option combo is the '99-'00 Limited with the full-time 4WD and optional rear locking diff - there's a switch on the dash to the left of the steering wheel that says RR DIFF LOCK in orange letters. All '01-'02 4Runners got the full-time 4WD but traction control replaced the rear locker. They all have a center diff lock switch on the dash where the rear diff lock used to be on the '99-'00 Limited (these have the center diff lock on the transfer case shifter).

crown victor victoria > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 12:46

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Oh, I know a Subaru is not a true 4x4, but I purposefully took stuff like the Cherokee off the table to see what stuff Oppo would suggest that I probably had not considered.

I love the Jeep 4.0L and having locking diffs and all of that, but I am just not sure I need it. I just moved to Louisiana, so we are talking zero elevation change and no rocks. Just soft earth and mud and sand. I like to hunt and fish so I want something that'll take me places without getting stuck, and to the Blue Ridge mountains for camping and stuff, but it would also need to be a DD.

In all honesty I think I want an LJ but they are rare-ish and the markup is ridiculous if it hasn't already been completely abused.

Party-vi > DailyTurismo 12/16/2013 at 12:50

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Poop. Guess I can't fix my typo. Yes 6.3s to 60mph is quick but it's not sub- 6 seconds.

Party-vi > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:52

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Ah this was my confusion. You could use an AWD car instead of a true 4x4 so that opens up the field quite a bit. An LJ isn't going to get near the mileage or comfort that an Outback will give you.

DailyTurismo > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 12:53

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Yeah - i just pulled that number from my butt.

ThatWillBuffOut > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 12:53

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I don't know what you want to tow, but there is the Chevy Tracker/ Suzuki Vitara (2 door) and Grand Vitara(4 door), Or the Suzuki XL7.

Party-vi > DailyTurismo 12/16/2013 at 12:57

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Well your butt does seem fairly accurate. Any weather tips tomorrow?

crown victor victoria > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 13:04

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Yeah. The LJs I have seen for sale are all over 100k miles and $15k

._.

aplaiddinosaur > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 13:10

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"Flamesuit on"

2000-01 ford explorer - not the most popular choice by any means, but more capable than many people give it credit for. It's basically a ranger with an SUV body, so body on frame construction and a honest to god 2 speed t-case (without the v8). With some basic offroad-centric mods (small lift and slightly larger tire), it'll get you through any bad weather with no issues and surprise the jeep guys on moderate trails. The junkyards are also full of them, so parts are cheap and plentiful. They are also fairly small in size, especially width-wise.

On the other hand, fuel economy is dismal, payload is a bit of a joke, and any maintenance will make you want to kill the engineers who designed it. The transmission will fail at some point as well, but at least the axles are fairly bomb-proof.

Party-vi > crown victor victoria 12/16/2013 at 13:21

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JEEZ that's insane. Oh well, supply demand blah blah blah. I'd say look for a CJ-8 but those are probably more money.

crown victor victoria > Racescort666 12/16/2013 at 13:21

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Yeah I lurked that build thread back in the day. I think it was a mechanic's lien or something, right?

Anyway, this basically the type of suggestion I was looking for. Maybe the first-gen X3 has fallen into affordability by now. It could be made into a version of Der Cherokee mit XDrive, but it would be all custom fab work and maintenance would be expensive.

crown victor victoria > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 13:32

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It's definitely a seller's market on those. Lots of JKs on the road here, especially Unlimiteds. Probably a ton of highway miles but less rare. Problem is, if I want a TJ Unlimited, I want the Pentastar and not the 3.8 minivan engine, but those are only a few years old so still fairly expensive.

And then I start looking into things like a 4bt swap and slowly lose my damn mind.

Boxer_4 > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 15:14

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Subaru's AWD system sends power to all 4 wheels at all times. Both in the manual transmission models (50:50 split) and automatic transmissions (60:40 cruising, 50:50 under acceleration, 1st gear, 2nd gear, and reverse). It may not be a true 4x4 system, but it's not nearly as weak as you are making it out to be.

Party-vi > Boxer_4 12/16/2013 at 15:16

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You are correct. I will have to remember this for future conversations (I assumed a 90:10 split). This makes it a full-time AWD system which still is missing a low gear for off-road crawly fun.

Boxer_4 > HammerheadFistpunch 12/16/2013 at 15:20

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While the auto Subarus do have an active system, the autos still have power going to all 4 wheels all the time. It's just able to shift the power distribution around when it detects a slip. The power bias settles in at somewhere between 90:10 and 60:40 while cruising with 4EAT depending on the year, but moves to 50:50 bias for acceleration, 1st gear, 2nd gear, and reverse.

HammerheadFistpunch > Boxer_4 12/16/2013 at 15:23

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very true. but it does require a traction loss to initiate a torque transfer

Boxer_4 > Party-vi 12/16/2013 at 15:23

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The older systems did have a 90:10 split, but the power was quick to transfer, and all wheels still saw some power at all times. In Europe and Japan, they still get the low range on the auto models. We don't get the fun options over here, however.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > MooseKnuckles 12/17/2013 at 04:09

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This is also what I would recommend. Hold out for a manual if you can (they do exist, my brother drives one currently).

But for some reason, he decided to include them in his "NO!" list. *shrug*

JesusBuiltMyHotRod > crown victor victoria 12/17/2013 at 21:11

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Rav 4?

Louis Subearth > Racescort666 12/18/2013 at 11:23

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Give me a black one and call it a day.

Louis Subearth > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/18/2013 at 11:26

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I think that all the Aztecs were taken by all the Heisenberg-wannabe Breaking Bad fans.

crown victor victoria > Textured Soy Protein 12/18/2013 at 15:25

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Wow these are all amazingly solid options, thanks! Great info on all the various 4x4 configurations, too. It's overwhelming to wade through all the changes from one model year to the next.

I especially like the GC or 4runner as possibilities...tons of aftermarket support for those.

crown victor victoria > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 12/18/2013 at 15:27

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I went on a 4-hour Google expedition on off road foresters after reading this. They look like a blast to build.

crown victor victoria > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 12/18/2013 at 15:31

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I actually forgot all about these so I am glad they got mentioned. Looks like the perfect size in 2dr body style.

Textured Soy Protein > crown victor victoria 12/18/2013 at 15:48

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I ended up buying a '99 Grand Cherokee V8 with Quadra-Trac II. I would've liked to get Quadra-Drive for the front & rear LSDs but I needed to get something quickly, and this was the best rust-free Grand Cherokee I could find in town with decent tires on it. We haven't had a ton of really bad snow yet here in Madison, WI but so far it's handled a few storms in the 3-5" range no problem. With the deal I got, I don't regret not holding out for Quadra-Drive, but it's worth considering, unless:

A) If you want to add lockers, then you should get a V8 with Quadra-Trac II or an I6 + Selec-Trac.

B) If you want to be able to use 2WD or lock the center diff in 4WD HI, those are exclusive to I6 + Selec-Trac.

crown victor victoria > HammerheadFistpunch 12/18/2013 at 17:59

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Yeah sorry I wasn't really specific on that. Let's put it like this: if I toss out all the options that I know of with low range, locking diffs, solid axles...what is left over that doesn't necessarily have those features but can be a rough facsimile?

I guess what I'd want ideally is a Suzuki Jimmy with a diesel but they don't exist in the US. I live in Louisiana, like to hunt and fish, so I would be dealing mainly with mud and water; no hills, no big ass rocks.

If I don't get a Tacoma or a Wrangler, what else would work?

HammerheadFistpunch > crown victor victoria 12/18/2013 at 18:02

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have you considered a grand Vitara? decent little thing, or a geo tracker...cheap, light and tough. you could also go for the 1st gen liberty CRD diesel.

crown victor victoria > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/18/2013 at 18:03

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Yeah I was trying to eliminate all the obvious answers so things like the Vehicross are all that's left. I was looking for suggestions that I might have been overlooking.

Like, if they are out of your favorite thing on the menu, what do you order instead?

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > crown victor victoria 12/18/2013 at 18:09

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Depends what it was I wanted, and where it was I had gone to get it.

If it's Tiramisu from Olive Garden, then I find another one that still has some.

crown victor victoria > HammerheadFistpunch 12/18/2013 at 18:16

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I would go for the CRD Liberty if I could find one. I had an 03 Sport with the 3.7l so I'm familiar with them and their flaws.

crown victor victoria > HammerheadFistpunch 12/18/2013 at 18:16

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I would go for the CRD Liberty if I could find one. I had an 03 Sport with the 3.7l so I'm familiar with them and their flaws.

thebigbossyboss > crown victor victoria 12/21/2013 at 10:33

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Suzuki Vitara?

thebigbossyboss > crown victor victoria 12/21/2013 at 10:33

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Suzuki Vitara

CarFanatic > crown victor victoria 01/03/2014 at 16:13

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Realize I'm late to this, but the Toyota ATRAC 4x4 technology is what makes the Toyota 4x4 trucks so dang awesome.